How Brands Should Enter the Metaverse & NFT Space

Desi Velikova 00:00

Hi everybody. I’m back with a set of super interesting episodes dedicated to web 3. I usually meet about a dozen new tech companies a week. And in the last few months 90% of those companies have been building products on blockchain. metaverse. Projects defy NF T’s Dao script to banks and naps play to earn games you name it. It’s all about building the new decentralized digital world we’ve been dreaming of. And if you’ve been thinking how to bring your company into web 3, I found the perfect advisor for you. Today I’m speaking to Diego Borgo an NFT and Metaverse, strategist and advisor, who helped Adidas launch their very first NFT project called into the metaverse, we talked about why brands should be thinking about their presence in the metaphors, how to launch a successful NFT project. What are the most important distribution channels for NFTs? What is in the NFT’s DNA that makes it so powerful from a community building point of view, and how Diego sees the space evolving by the end of the year? Enjoy this episode. And if you’d like to learn more about how to grow in web three, make sure you follow us wherever you’re watching for listening.

01:14

Welcome to the product show insightful interviews with founders and tech leaders sharing how they hack product growth.

Desi Velikova 01:28

Hi, Diego, great to have you here.

Diego Borgo 01:31

Hi, nice to meet you. Thanks for having me on.

Desi Velikova 01:33

It’s it’s absolute pleasure to have you as the first guest of our second season. As I mentioned, just before we started recording, I was really looking for someone who could act is the bridge between web two and web three. Because you know, quite a lot of people from the web three space, they have their jargon, they feel kind of almost untouchable, which could be quite intimidating for people who come for more traditional brands in like the typical web two space. So I’m really about to manage to organize this chat. So tell me a little bit more about your cell phone do do is that strategist for NFT projects, and the metaverse and probably a little bit about your background and how you embarked on the journey to work. Specifically in web three.

Diego Borgo 02:19

Sure, it was a long journey. I mean, I’ve been I’ve been consulting brands for the last eight years, you know, generally like, has been sort of like my marketing and digital marketing digital strategy has been sort of like my field of expertise for the last eight years, specifically, a lot more than last 80 years, what I mean with the years basically consulting brands, but I’ve been working in marketing and advertisement since I was like 16. So it’s been it’s been a while I’ve gone through through different processes, I’ve seen things go up, I’ve seen things go down, I’ve seen new technologies. So, you know, everything that’s happening isn’t necessarily new to me, and I see cycles repeating itself. So it’s exciting to sort of like, be in a position that, you know, I wasn’t able to, to be in a position where I could create an impact when the internet showed up because it was way too young. But, you know, being the situation right now with Blockchain technology and NF T’s, you know, web three and all of it, it’s, it’s a place that it’s exciting for me to to be right now. So yeah, I’ve been I’ve been consulting brands, and the last four years it was consulting it does in the headquarter so that’s basically it was my my last consultancy, on the sort of like web tier so to call obviously, there was a I spin into into my consulting if it does at the end, but my journal, it was connected to digital strategies, digital marketing, you know, launching a new project, you know, consumer journeys, developing or helping the team to develop DTC channels as well. So, you know, direct to consumer and all of it, and I’ve been in crypto since 2017. A lot in the beginning was was obviously focused on on the technology itself. You know, my brain I tend to say that good borrow my brain works much more on the creative side. So I have very strong, you know, agency and branding background where I was working a lot with creative teams and creative directors and you know, developing strategies and company rollouts and all that. So back on 2017 When I first got into this space on blockchain and you know, cryptocurrency space, I haven’t got as deep as I wanted because there was always that blocker you know, about like technology or or development or, you know, really intangible concepts that were really hard for me to grasp. And I never felt I could really create an impact on something like Bitcoin, right? Hey, how do you create a positive impact on Bitcoin? How do you create a positive impact on a theorem? How do you like gather with that community and build something exciting, was so intangible and so big and so far from my reality that I stuck around but you know, not enough to be retired now. So I did During that is my investments but nothing major. I always really enjoyed the technology. And you know, I was sort of like learning a lot about it, but I haven’t like really applied anything professionally against about a year ago when, you know, I got into NF T’s and I heard about Mt is the first time that’s where my brain is like exploded because I’ve seen the the technology aspect of it, which you know, is sort of like understood, let’s put well, but who does, right? It’s such a new thing. But I understood quite quite well like what can do not necessarily you know, how to develop or how to build it. But at the same time that I saw, like artists and musicians and creators in communities getting together for more like a creative point of view, uniting both things through technology, and created this entire new sphere, and this entire new space, when I first seen and realize what was happening, I just couldn’t look back, you know, my brain was like, just mind blowing. I was like, this is interesting. This is exciting. And I definitely want to start like looking into that path. I did join a couple friends and colleagues from it doesn’t sort of like a core team that was, you know, developing. What then happened to be into the metaverse, the NFT, from Adi does that we launched her end of end of the year last year. So that was sort of like my, my really aha moment where, you know, I started seeing and finding other people that also understand that it also work, you know, within the same vision, and then that all was built. And since the end of last year, you know, I’ve been entirely focused on that. The last two and three months, I’ve been working with NFT founders, I’ve been working with different brands, you know, I put myself on on a row of exactly what he just said before, you know, not necessarily bridging one to two, web three, because obviously, So Neil, and I’m far not an expert, but my role has been sort of like bridging, you know, that conversation you mentioned those jargons. And that type of like entitlement that you have within the space that people think that they’re like genius and Elon Musk’s right now, with, you know, everybody else that just wants to learn and understand what it’s about, I’m sharing my experience, I’m sharing what I’ve seen, I’m sharing what I’ve built. And you know, what I what I invested or what I collected. So I’m just trying to like, make it easier for people to understand what this is about, as far as I understand. And through my own experiences.

Desi Velikova 07:21

Yeah. And when you decided to make this kind of complete switch to NFT, what was it in the NFC technology in the space that you found? So, you know, mind blowing? Can you set?

Diego Borgo 07:34

Yeah, I mean, for me, there is very few times in history, where technologists get together with creators, artists, and creatives. And whenever that happens, that’s there’s a renaissance, right? If you look at art in the past, as well, you know, different ways of, you know, either expressing feelings or, you know, portraying moments or portraying things, new materials for sculptures or new tools, you know, like those things shift entirely how art itself, or how that side of the word happen, right? When you look at internet as well, you know, in in the 90s, or end of 90s, like nobody really understood or could see what this would all be about. And, you know, as soon as like, the technology was there, and technologists started getting together with creative people, we’re building this new word that everybody now, you know, happens to be using, and it’s connected and all of it. So what I’m always trying to do is to look at the past and try to predict the future by cycles, right? When you look at like radio, television, internet, social media, like there is always something that repeated itself in a manner that you can sort of like see new trends and then try to analyze how that’s gonna play out. Right? Can you predict the future for sure not but it gives you like a good understanding. And, you know, by looking at what happened with the internet, I see a lot of patterns on what’s happening with NF T’s right now. And not just NF T’s there is like there’s blockchain technology, there’s about 10 years old, there’s cryptocurrencies that are getting more and more momentum because of the obvious reasons that the current work situation we had since like two years, you know, there is NF T’s that are getting traction, but then there is like d phi as well, which is such an exciting concept and there is doubt as well. So, you know, like, I don’t want to go too much in the technical side of it, but it’s just this this this suit of technologies that are getting together and you know, being available at scale, and then you have a lot of really creative people coming in using those tools to create a more exciting future that really, really drives me to see you know, like, it’s impossible to deny that there is something happening there you know, is it a hype is it a phase, it is a third time it will say, you know, I am all when I think if if there is somewhere that it will To be right now is in this space, you know, be there, stick around, create, collect, meet people build, you know, it’s it’s undeniable that some bubble when you look specifically to the NFT market and to how the market has been behaving, I will never deny that it’s going to pop as the internet did. But the technology going to stick around as the internet did, you know, in the 90s, and the end of 90s, when all that craziness around, Internet stocks happen, you couldn’t be in the 1999 or 2000, right now shouting, that the internet is a fad and the internet, you know, it’s gonna die just because people are going crazy and throwing money at it. You cannot like put market behavior connected to technology. Those things are separate. You know, marketing behavior is obviously built on top of other technologies offering, but he cannot further technology because humans are behaving by a crazy and greedy way when it comes to the actual technology. And that’s what I believe, you know, that’s what makes me bullish, I think the technology is going to stick around. The technology is groundbreaking. You know, and all of it I’m not talking about tree, I’m not talking NFT I’m talking about the suit of technologies that’s going to be put together in a manner that is going to reshape the way we communicate and interact as humans. Will that take five years. 10 years? I don’t know. But you know, whoever sticks around, it’s gonna see and I’m keen to stick around.

Desi Velikova 11:21

What do you say to people who still see NF t’s a see pointless fat? And before you answer this question, I want to read you a paragraph from an article I read a few weeks ago, it was in marketing week, and it was actually by a reputable marketing professor Mark Ritson. So here is the title, NF T’s are just marketing latest idiot magnet. And here’s the paragraph from it. It’s a sad state of affairs when older and more experienced marketers are too confused, or too afraid of their immediate marketing boss to be able to call out the pointlessness of NF T’s and OD are the hoo ha that obscures the mission of marketing. But to all those decent men and women, I say, ignore this whole strip, these two will pass and to those adult and obsessed with NF T’s and contemplating some future conference speech about how this little little thing will transform and revolutionize marketing forever. I say, get the fuck back to work. This BS was actually posted a few times in my feed as I saw it posted by different people, many of them copying can relieve that finally someone said it. And I actually ended up in a few discussions, trying to explain that what this article shows before all is the author’s lack of understanding of the space and especially the technology behind it. I was called namely bullish, aggressively optimistic. And I was really blown away by the number of people who feel so negative about the space. So what do you say to them?

Diego Borgo 13:06

Yeah, I mean, you don’t know what you don’t know. Right? A lot of people that are saying things like that. They don’t necessarily they haven’t necessarily spent enough time in the space. You know, they haven’t necessarily try to understand the technology and the possibilities. But more than that, is the the major issue I see when it comes to statements like that, which for me, it sounds very one sided as well, right? It sounds very, like very strong opinion about something I really don’t like, but I won’t really tell you why I don’t like it. So I don’t know, like I feel, I feel the major issue is that a lot of times people were trying to predict the future by looking at the present. So you know, like, saying that NF T’s are hardship right now, because people are paying one and a half million for a photo of like a ping wing. You have a point, I will never deny that. Although, you know, their motives on why people were doing what they’re doing, apart from money, laundry, and all the crazy stuff that people usually throw at me like terrorism and money laundry, like Yeah, that’s like conversation of like, seven years ago, let’s move from there. It’s not against. But you know, like, I think we we are at the very beginning. You know, we are we are early and that tends to be like I repeat myself over and over over when I’m talking that we early because indeed we are, you know, sitting in the room right now, how many and that’s

Diego Borgo 14:34

totally not related with this specific professor because I don’t I don’t necessarily know his work to criticize or to comment on but how many, quote unquote experts have been wrong in 2001 they were saying that the internet was a fad, right? Like, you know, how many you know so called experts have been or bankers or you know, investors have been wrong about you know, Not the valuation, but the, you know, the utility of cryptocurrencies. You know, if you if you’re following even by far, you’re following what’s happening in the world right now, especially in Europe, you’re seeing something you never seen before. People are positively impacting on a word crisis event by donating cryptocurrencies to a government that is needed right now, to help them to get out of situation that they are they were put on? How crazy is that? Could you do that before with banks? No, banks are closed, right. So what I’m trying to say with all of that is, it’s, I think it’s dangerous to close your mind and to, you know, not at least try to understand what’s happening. By the sound of it. Again, I don’t, I don’t necessarily know his work. But by the sound of it, he’s coming from a very one sided direction. Also, because, you know, there’s so many use cases for, for, for this technology, that aren’t necessarily the mainstream aspects of it right. Now, obviously, if you look into JPEGs, and, and the so called JPEGs. And, you know, all those collections that are going for crazy amount of money. It’s alarming, but that’s what makes the headlines and people read headlines, and therefore people maintain, you know, a lack of education, because they think is all about like, apes, and penguins, and all of it. But the underlying technology is incredible. As soon as you start looking into it, you know, I give you an example, I’m advising a project that’s called niemals. And this project is focused on real world impact. So what we’ve done is the founder has purchased 41,000 hectares of land in the middle of the Amazon forest, where we’re gonna we are using NFT technologies Dows, decentralized autonomous organizations, token omics, true staking and other models, defy elements, decentralized finance elements to protect and conserve the area, not just found in Florida, but also to create positive impact on the community that is surrounding that area. There’s 25,000 People in the middle of demos and forests in Brazil, one of the poorest communities, that we are working really hard with the community and with a local community and our community Names community and developing our project to create a positive impact with in that people, you know, within that community, and within that area, would that ever be possible without this technology, it wouldn’t be possible. But now it is. And that’s a different use case is a different way of looking to that is a different suit of technologies on which we are putting together in order to achieve a greater good in order to you know, like, do something that was never possible to be done before. Now, if you look into things like that, and I’m not by far saying he was perfect, but if you’re looking to applications like that, then you start understanding a little bit more what is above, then you start understanding the possibilities, if you want to take a different angle, let’s talk about artists, you know, majority of the artists, the most famous artists in history, they die before seeing the success of their own work. Why? Because was basically impossible for an artist that’s upcoming to get in front of one of the biggest Auction House houses in the world, or to get in front of one of the biggest collectors in the world. So therefore, it was almost impossible for them to make money. Right now that changed. Because instead of having like that top tier of power holding, you know, access to those places, now everyone, because I believe everyone is an artist, but everyone that wants to create art can now use that set of technology, put their project order art in a marketplace, and if someone finds value in that they will buy it. And if there is more value than demand price is gonna go high beep was an example 65 $69 million. Is that a third? Is that a bubble? Is that money laundry? Is that terrorists? No, he’s a fucking incredible artist, therefore, the market value is that at $69 million,

Diego Borgo 18:59

you know, so that’s another use case for me that goes way far from like JPEGs, and paintings and AIDS, which people are sort of like, they tend to look just into that and believe that that’s all but it’s above. It goes beyond that, you know, and I believe those are the use cases we are seeing just right now, just at the beginning. You know, like look at Amazon, when they started, they sold books. Now they sell everything. Right? Could you say Amazon is not necessarily a great business because we’re selling books, like you’re looking at the present and trying to predict the future look at where are they write they have like rocket companies planning to ship stuff to other planets. They started with books, right? So that’s kind of like how I see I tend to to keep very open mind. I tend to you know, balance my opinions. I’m not the type of guy that goes and say, This is the future that’s always gonna be about, like, I tried to balance I understand there’s a lot of fun. I understand I said is a mobile you know, I think it is and I think but you know as as it goes and as it develops, I think we will see exactly the same As the internet is going to crash, people going to be laughing at me for two years because was talking about it, but then it’s going to raise out of nowhere. And it’s going to be one thing that’s going to change the world, hopefully for good. If don’t, if you don’t, right, because, you know, it’s it’s balancing power is giving is giving creators more power. Why did social media was so exciting because brands had the opportunity to then connect with their consumers in a closer manner. You know, they had the possibilities of, you know, tapping into different communities, so called influencers, but all that work and all that relationship that was created wasn’t around communities was around, influencers was around specific persons, right. And it was in a centralized space like Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok Snapchat. Now what’s happening is the same, apply the same framework, but into communities, get that influencer and put that at scale. And then you start looking to ways that you can connect and communicate directly with your consumer, that you can connect and communicate and build things that relate directly with your consumer. So yeah, it’s a long rant can be longer. But you know, that’s what I’m trying just just to portrayed. There are points which are valid, I’m not denying, but I also think you need to go deeper, you need to look closer, you need to dive deeper, you need to look you know what the possibilities are? Nobody knows, like, what is this going? Where does this happen? What this technology is capable of? We don’t know. There’s a lot of things we’ve seen impressive. There’s a lot of bullshit. There’s a lot of money grab, there’s a lot of scams, for sure. As everywhere.

Desi Velikova 21:35

Yeah, I really think that NF T’s are offering an amazing opportunity to support human trafficking social causes, I see this a win win win situation, where obviously the organization you’re supporting is winning, the artist is winning, and hopefully, the collector is winning, as well. So it’s a kind of fascinating new model that will be hopefully explored more and more in the coming years. Let’s talk a bit about the different types of entities that are currently on the market and put them in groups. So we obviously have the profile picture, the avatar projects, we have one to one, art, we have generative art. Like art works. We have collectibles, my favorite NBA top shots, photography, NF T’s music, NF T’s, of course, projects like decentraland 10 sandbox, where people can buy their digital real estate and build their office or projects on them. What am I missing? And what do you think will be dominating the space by the end of 2022? Plates worn? For sure. Right? Gaming? Yeah, you’re right. It was in my list

Diego Borgo 22:54

is good that he did, because then I can use that as an example. I think I think plateform is going to be exciting. I’m surprised by the reaction of the gaming community. You know, like,

Desi Velikova 23:07

why surprised?

Diego Borgo 23:09

Because it’s been negative majority of the gamers are like now and if G’s bullshit, and like wanna we don’t want to have that. And I’m surprised, you know, like, I’m trying to understand I’m not a gamer. Let’s start from there. But I’m trying I’m trying to understand why why they they are so against it. I think one of the main points obviously is connected to play torn, I think I think is a bad name. And I think it gives you bad expectations. Because play two aren’t people like I’ll play games and are going to become millionaire. That’s what they’re expecting. And and that to happen, there is no way that the game is going to be fun. And the game not being fun, you won’t be engaging in the game not being engaging, nobody’s going to stick around, and therefore that business Bond was broke. I think that that might be why a lot of gamers are against it. Because all about gaming is community engagement and plan fun and having a great time and, and being able to do something exciting. And I think as soon as you start adding, like financial layers to it, it gets more complicated. But what I think is interesting about that aspect is play to learn. And listen, my point of view should be something that’s more connected to before you used to pay like 50 or 100 bucks to play a game. And now you make 50 or 100 bucks by playing that game. Right? Like if you low the expectations, and you can like not necessarily see that as a full time job or something that you’re gonna be doing in your true life as a normal gamer. And as a pro gamer. I think that that shifts a little bit the narrative that takes a lot of pressure from the the builders from the creators, you know, because his expectations, his pace are insane. You know, literally insane because you can just like get so much out of your return of investment that people were like totally spoiled. So I think that that could be sort of like a subtle shift on narrative that might You know, resonated with more people. Why I’m surprised as well is because if if you’re a gamer, and you’ve been playing games for a long time, you are used to buy skins, you’re used to buy in, in game items, you’re used to buy, you know, land or, you know, potions or anything that gives you power, what

Desi Velikova 25:23

weapons,

25:24

weapons. So that to understand that for a normal person, by normal, I mean, someone that doesn’t play a normal user apart from a gamer, it’s really difficult for someone to understand why to help a money on something that’s just digitally, right. And that’s the entry barrier for NF T’s. So a gamer already has in their mentality on why they would pay for something that just exists digitally. So they’re like, 80%, closer to understanding of cheese. You know, the difference is that now you have provenance, and now you have royalties. And now you have, you know, a, sort of like a own chain, you know, information that you can look it up that you can display ownership, that you can understand what it’s coming from, that you can sort of like, you know, be part of that project by owning a certain token. So like that, that last bit is what missing for gaming are still understanding of cheese. And I would expect that they would have an easier time. And, you know, I’m not saying they’re wrong, I’m just really trying to understand why they don’t really get it or not all, but there was a very strong pushback from the committee. I’m not getting it. So I’m, with my ears open there, because for sure to have a point. But going back to sort of like, play to work, I think, you know, it’s undeniable that that industry has always been in the foreground, is undeniable that that community has always been sort of like in the edge of technology and innovation. And I’ve seen a lot of games of the build for a long time. And you know, they are coming closer and more towards this model, which is going to be interesting. So I’m not saying it is the future and is going to be perfect. What I’m saying is, by the end of the year, I think we’re going to be talking a lot about play tour, and we’re going to be seen a lot around this space. You know, x infinity has been around for a long time. Not saying x is great, but they already displayed a sort of like a business model with him play torn that, you know, has worked for a certain, you know, part of the community as well. So I’m excited. I’m really excited about a project specifically that’s called right racing, think about Need for Speed, but on chain on polygon. And they are doing that, you know, you have racetracks you have like, you have gas stations, you have like billboards, you have mechanic shops, you buy cars, you can tune them, you can run, you can race, you can you know, change parts and more race, you have more develop, your driver gets and all of it, those things that are exciting. I think, you know, there’s tokenomics behind, there’s staking methodologies, there’s different aspects to it. So I think that there is an interesting connection there were things going to start start developing as well. So I think we’re going to be talking, how about about game in the upcoming months, and I don’t think PFP is going to go anywhere, I think, you know, everyone is looking for an identity specifically in a place where majority of the people are unknowns, or want to be added on or just part of the culture? And what is the best way to do that? If not by displaying your PFP on Twitter, or now that you know, Twitter’s very fine that or discord or whatever the hell you are at. So I don’t think any of these are going anywhere. You know, apart from a lot of people wanting to I don’t think it is. But I think gaming is going to be sort of like the next big thing we’re going to be talking about when it comes like specific that part of the of the of the space. But if you want to really, you know, know what is the next groundbreaking thing, which has the power not just to shift the direction of the space, but has the power to shift a lot on how we organize ourselves as human beings and how we communicate with ourselves. You get it, you need to start looking to Dallas as well decentralized autonomous organizations, right? Because that’s exciting. That’s something that wasn’t possible before without this technology. And I think we are again, if we are early with NF T’s if we are liking 9095 9090 47 NF T’s right now daos I think we’re like mid 70s You know, this has like, in my point of view, a huge potential to disrupt how we organize and interact and you know, behave as human beings so that’s that’s where my mindset that’s where I’m trying to learn more and more about I’m far from like, understanding it all. But I’m, I’m spending my hours in there, you know, I’m contributing to some dolls and part of the ordered house. I’m looking to building the house and I’m excited about how what it’s going to bring especially for brands especially for IP owners, especially for business I think I think they’re really disrupting.

Desi Velikova 30:02

No, excellent. Let’s go back to your kind of expertise with brands. Tell me the main reasons why you think brands should be on the metaverse and the NFT space and why they shouldn’t ignore it really?

Diego Borgo 30:17

Yeah, I think the first question to answer is like all brands, should all brands be there? The answer is definitely no. You know, should all brands have a YouTube channel? Should all brands have social media presence? Should all brands be like, on LinkedIn? Should all brands be on Twitter? Like, no, right there, there are different strategies, there is different methods, there’s different sort of like values that different brands will use, you know, different ways of engaging with their consumers. I’m not saying NF T’s amount of versus a new channel far from it. But I don’t think it’s going to be organic or natural to every single brand to be using this new way of communicating because maybe they don’t have to, they have waterways, right. Just wanted to give that caveat before. Why I think it’s important, I think, let’s break two things apart from each other. So usually, you know, NFC is a metaphors tend to be put on the same bucket. And they aren’t necessarily the same thing. So let’s break those things apart. Just for the sake of example, I think NFC is have, as it stands today, the power of giving brands the possibility of tapping into new consumer clients user basis, that they wouldn’t necessarily be able to connect with before. That’s one aspect. So it’s sort of like a reach element. You know, there wasn’t necessarily possible before, either because that people, those people were interested in the brand, or, because the brand didn’t really have a way to talk to them, there is there is a possibility there. The second aspect is now you know, that you can, you can tap into either existing communities, where you can find a very clear, you know, sort of like, group that you can talk with, or you can partner with, or you can add value to or you can join forces with or you can enter a certain space, which didn’t exist before NF T’s because they were created for and for NF t so you have all those like different communities, you can tap in and like go and talk and create and CO create and be part of right now, which is an expansion when when it comes to you know, a target group or demographics.

Diego Borgo 32:35

And the third aspect for me is, you as a brand now have the possibility of, you know, co creating, and CO collaborating and CO owning things with your consumer, which wasn’t, he was possible before but not at scale, we’re not in a safe space and not in a way that is being done right now to this technology. So those three aspects are really interesting. Two of them are basically expansion of demographics, or consumer targets or, you know, expansion of reach. And the third, which is the one that the most exciting for me, you know, is basically the fact that you can now get together with consumers and shape and create the future of your brand with them, rather than to them before, they tend to be like a brand put something out or they do some consumer research or whatever thing they’ve done in the background. And they would just basically create something and put it out there and see it sticks or they will do like loads of research and you know, put products out there and like reiterate. Now what I think is really exciting is that you can really, truly get together with your community and CO create things together, you know, and build and shape and more than just the creation of it, there is a co ownership where you know, there is manners of giving fractionalize ownership of certain things are fractionalized revenue or fractionalize benefits from what that relationship has created as just had before there’s that win win win situation where the brand’s winning the consumers that are being part of that pool of, you know, closer group is winning and the overall consumer from that brand is winning as well. Because you know, the likelihood of a product being better or more engaging or more exciting after pass passing through that sort of like funneling of quality or co creation or collaboration is much higher, and there is a much bigger chance of succeeding then then marketeers throwing darts at the wall and thinking what consumers want to get next. Right. So I think that’s exciting. I think that sort of like short term present right now what’s happening? I think if you’re looking to membership, memberships, exciting, membership, triple yo I believe NF T’s do a lot of that. You know, a lot of people are like, Oh, how much money can we make, like how much money can I make? Like, again, that’s the short term ROI type of mentality. I think there is money to be made undeniable But I think the most interesting thing right now is how can you create a truly engaging community around your brand that is connected to, you know, the KPI or success here looks like how many people can we have compared to the amount of FTEs we put out, for example. So let’s say there’s 30,000 lefties out there you have 25,000 unique wallets are unique holders. And there is a very, very good chunk of that audience that is very active within the communities you’re viewing and shaping and you’re sort of like doing all the things with them. I think that’s exciting thing that, you know, there is a lot to be done on that aspect of community. If you want to go beyond I think the the beautiful thing right now is that brands have a new space where they can tap in to create rewarding pact and reward, you know, create positive impact in the world. You know, think about an example word of woman great projects being around first, probably first or one of the very first woman led projects you know, which has been core focuses you by the project the royalties goals into supporting artists woman in this space, woman artists in this space like great cause very straightforward, a lot connection, a lot connected to education a lot connected to bringing more women to space, which we know is majority of it is male dominated the bro culture is very strong still within this space. So think about what a woman as sort of like, a very great entry point for a brand that has the same values, or that resonates or has the same mission. I don’t know, L’Oreal, for example, could be a good example is a brand that you know, represents a lot for a woman or a Dove Dove is another great brand, which you know, talks a lot about inclusion, diversity has displayed a lot of it on its campaigns, and it’s sort of like brand vision mission, all of it really cool. Imagine now this brand coming in and partnering with like word of woman, which is which is a good example. And using their brand as a platform to help more women get into tech or to help more women get into this space or to help more women to find a different angle on which they can now make something that they’re more excited about, you know a lot about education is a lot about empowerment is a lot about, you know, getting together and like supporting causes. So I’m trying to save all of it is that the results. So apart from all that, like marketing, jargon conversation of like, target group, audiences, and ROI, the results were like a very strong branding aspect on which brands can take advantage of right now. And literally type in a tap in very organic and very engaging communities, you know, true true brand values or true brand, you know, visions and stuff like that. So that’s where I think is exciting for brands.

Desi Velikova 37:50

Yeah, so we already have the communities created for them, they

Diego Borgo 37:54

exactly, they need to a lot of brands I’m working with, they’re like, oh, what should we do? Like, can we launch it enough to like, No, you don’t have to launch it, and then find a community that resonates with your brand, go there, add value to them, and find a way that you know, you can make something really exciting and create a positive impact on the world through this major machine, you’ve got that now you can use that in a manner that can you know, everybody can win. So like, that’s where maybe you should starting off is not like trying to say I’m gonna make 20 elearning a week, because cool, you can do that, probably, that doesn’t represent a lot for your brand, depending on the size of your brand, but then what is next. So, you know, by partnering with those communities, you really create that sort of, like long lasting relationship if you do, right. But also, you know, you’re tapping into an entire new consumer base or entire new user base, which, you know, can definitely after afterwards be, you know, brought in back to your brand or to purchase your product or to engage with with whatever you’re building or whatever you offer. It comes more from an angle, which is you’re going to give and you’re going to sort of like add value to first to then sort of like you know, get the benefits afterwards. So you know, it’s we’ve sent the same show social media, I mean, the beginning of social media was like, post offers about your products and tell people to buy whatever you sell and people then start understanding storytelling is key, you know, commission committed engagement ski, you know, this plane that we care about social cause, or you know, environment or or impact positive impact in the world is key. So it shifts the narrative as well. And I think brands have learned a lot from the last 1015 years of social and now it’s a bit easier for them to understand this space and how to tap into it but yes, it’s still early.

Desi Velikova 39:46

Yeah, I have the feeling sometimes that many brands it just is not a digital channel. And I mean, it pony. We are already working on a few NFT projects, creating purely digital For part of it, but for many have the feeling they will be driven by FOMO. Rather than kind of the view, patience and understanding of the space. Can you give me an examples of brands that you think have done it right? And launch? Like really successful campaigns?

40:21

Yeah, I mean, the FOMO aspect is, is understandable, because it’s a crazy hype, everybody’s talking about it, every single CMO is pushing like, a direction or Hey, we should be like, we should enter the metaverse or we should enter NF T’s. Right. So I understand the difficulty right now, is education. Such a new thing? You know, and what, what tends to be what tends to happen is that, you know, some trainee have said that they bought an NF t, and then that person becomes like, you’re gonna teach the whole company, you know, which is exciting, because they love how things are shifting within organizations, but every

Desi Velikova 40:57

generation thing, I think it’s very valid. I mean, yeah, I agree with that fairly thoroughly. And to be honest,

Diego Borgo 41:06

well, yeah. Oh, absolutely. So, you know, it’s, I think, I think education is the the main issue right now. Because what tends to happen when there is a new trend, or something new in the space is that, you know, brands call their, you know, consultants from the 90s and say, oh, what should we do here? And they’re like, huh, I don’t know, but we’re gonna send you something. And, and then he starts from from there. Right, which, which is, which is obviously difficult. So I think the the math issue right now is, there is something really exciting that’s happening very, like nobody knows where this is going. There’s a very small amount of demographics that understands that because they’ve spent enough time within the space. And those people not necessarily are, you know, willing to work or interested in working or have the skills to work with brands. So that creates sort of like, one you have FOMO, but two, you don’t have like the proper, the proper tools or the proper, you know, road to success, because integration is an issue. So I think like that, that’s sort of like the problem we are seeing right now. And, you know, I think I think a good way of start, you know, looking into, into entering the space is much more connected to like, literally spending time within this space. You know, the best way for everyone to be learning right now, is by spending time you know, you don’t you don’t need to invest, you don’t need to spend money you think is a far that is a bubble is gonna explore, cool, keep your money safe. Just spend time, look, look around, ask people that are within the space, why they do what they do, and why they think this is going where it is going, you know, consume continent and education. I think, you know, I think that’s sort of like a good a good way to start looking into it. Yeah,

Desi Velikova 42:55

I think that the community element of the NFT space is just really been mind blowing. I’ve been involved in online communities in the last 1015 years since they literally existed. And in all honesty, I don’t think that we really understood what an online community is until 2021 Many brands their head like the watch social media audiences, the worker wants the hand the brand advocates but in reality very few actually have real engaged when communities and looking what is happening in the and the space, I think it’s on a completely different level. People are so passionate, so engaged in really care. A couple of weeks ago, I posted I kind of lost this. I don’t know if you know the hip project, the 3g Apes by judgementall. Yeah, I really wanted to get one and but more of them were looking like men. And I posted on Twitter using the hashtag Hey, guys, can you help me find a female looking shape? Like within 30 minutes, I got dozens and dozens and dozens of requests of people literally suggesting different shapes. They never met me. They were kind of genuinely engaged and interested and you know, very kind. So I think that is really, really different for what we’ve had in the space so far. So what do you think is the NF T’s GNA that make it so powerful when it comes to community engagement? Obviously, we shouldn’t really kind of ignore that there is the financial element, obviously, you invest money, so you have pure interest in that to grow. But is there more to that? What is it that makes it so special?

Diego Borgo 44:38

Yeah, I mean, the financial aspect, just to clear that first, is obviously applying great people people tend to buy something and then protect their bags or pump their bags, so they make more money. No brainer, absolutely clear. We acknowledged that. And I think that’s that’s one of the you know, one of the main issues with this space is that there’s a lot of like, you know, Financial conversations, rather, and it’s very loud. And sometimes you get very, very loud, especially, especially on bull markets, you know, what we’ve seen a month ago, one and a half month ago, it becomes like, everybody’s making money, and there’s so much money, and it’s all about money. And now, which is bear market, you just like you barely hear people talking about money, because like, nobody’s buying anything, and then he goes back to creation. So let that aside, what I think it’s really interesting, or why people are so engaging, I think people tend to, to be excited about new things. You know, not everyone, but a good amount of people tend to be excited about new things. And this specific space brings together you know, several different people with different backgrounds and different talents into the same space. And then collaboration, sort of, like organically, you know, is born through that, because, as I said, before, you’ve got people that are technologists, and the God creators, and you got artists, and you got entrepreneurs, and you got writers and you got a musician. So you have this pot of creativity happening. And people are creating dope things, you know, people are creating things that are, are incredible. And that resonating is coming from cultures, from people to people. And I think the sort of like, the byproduct of all of it is, is engagement or people being excited to be around, and especially I think for for women or for, you know, people that are coming to this space right now, newcomers in general, but especially for women, I think there was this conversation, the last 12 months, at least that I’ve I’ve seen of people really wanting to get more people into the space, specially woman. So I think, you know, once once people see that that’s happening, they really want to like help and push forward, because everybody within the space understands that the only way for us to be and achieve what you know, the overall space wants to do, which is be sort of like this new technology on which we can create and CO create the future together is by mass adoption is by you know, more people coming to the space. So I think a lot of it is connected to one, I found this thing that’s really exciting I need to tell you about because you’re gonna love it. And to is like, the only way for us to go forward is by having more people that share this passion with us. So whatever is the problem you’re facing right now, let us help for you to like, take that out of the way. And I find that’s really exciting. You know, I think, obviously, is that many adoption, or mass adoption connected to financial gains? Yes. Because if there’s more people into the space, there’s more liquidity and all of it, but I think a lot of times, that’s not necessarily the main goal, you know, I’m really advocating for, you know, mass adoption and, and, you know, more people coming in, just because I truly believe that is one of the very first times in history that everyone that wants to create something or can create something or has something to say or something to put out there has the chance now to make something outstanding, you know, I think we are leveling, leveling the sort of like the this hierarchy that he, you know, tends to exist and I’m not saying you want he probably will, but right now it doesn’t. Where, you know, creators have chance to create something exciting, you know, and, and for me, like, the main aspect of all of it, I see NF T’s and Metaverse and all of that as sort of like the, you know, the horse Trojan for for the Trojan horse for cryptocurrencies and decentralization, you know, is a way that before me in 2017 not really going on weigh in on blockchain and cryptocurrencies, because you wasn’t resonating with my brain, my, my creative brain. Now, when I see something that’s really creative, I don’t really need to understand what is behind what is empowering, if I want to be part of it. And you know, I’m really bullish that the future should be decentralized. I’m not saying it is right now. But the vision is to be and the way we’re going to be doing that is through this technology. No, Blockchain came by it’s, it’s it’s hard. It’s, it’s what you know, what’s meant to do. And we need to shape and reshape and keep working on making sure that’s going to get where we want it to get I think, I think we have the power now to sort of like shape future and that’s why I think is going to just very aging as well.

Desi Velikova 49:25

Okay, I want to pick your brain on a few practical things. Let’s say I run the marketing department of cosmetics brand. Let’s say that you’re January. And we as a team have decided that we want to enter the space and launch an NFT campaign or something else exciting in the metaverse. Where do I start from? Obviously Concordia, Goldberg or other advisors in the space, I definitely don’t want to rely on my web to marketing background. And I’m sure there are many different angles who can enter the space with the bank, but are There any golden rules brands should consider before they decide to enter the space?

Diego Borgo 50:07

Yeah, I think I think the the first step is, it’s coming from the why, right? Like, do we understand enough about what this is? And why do we want to do it? And then probably the answer is we don’t really understand. But I think it makes sense. But then why does it make sense? Right? I think it starts question start questioning a lot. That is not like, Oh, our our CMO, we have to do something and then we need to do something right. Is a lot connecting to the Wi Fi, I think is very important. You know, I think taking taking time is very important. You know, not going back to that FOMO thing, a lot of brands were like, We want to be the first but we don’t know what we’re doing. But we don’t want to be the last but to we are the the you know, to we learned maybe we’re going to be the last, I think that race doesn’t really matter, I think is really connected to sort of like, how can you do that in a meaningful way that really resonates with your brand values and with your consumers and with what he stands for? I think like that sort of like more philosophical question is important to understand. But then what it would go towards next is more like a strategic way, which is get your sort of like brand guidelines, and you know, like really clear brand strategy decks and look, how can, how can these fit into that strategic way of thinking, right? How can we look into how can we look into building a strategy for entering Metaverse or entering an empty space on which fits within what the brand stands for what the brands trying to achieve in the next 510 years? I think, you know, not forcing it true. But really trying to understand how that can complement or how that can build upon what has been laid out for the overall brand strategy. That will be sort of like my second step, as soon as you realize, yeah, it makes sense for us to do it. And then the third step would be, you know, start. Like as, as a person within a team, you start really spending more time in the space and trying to identify projects that you know, a consumer from your brand would be resonating with, or that your brand as a whole would be resonating with and then you study, break down, dissect and understand exactly what those projects are doing, why they’re successful, how their community is, and then start understanding you’re trying to get closer to them to be able to learn from them to see, you know, what’s the best approach for us. And then I think as soon as you start going through that learning process, it’s going to become very clear that now you have a why. Now you have also like, you know, how you’re going to connect that with your brand strategy. And now you have sort of like, you know, what you could potentially do because you learn through those communities. And before creating anything, I think the best thing to do is understanding whatever we have in mind, or whatever the brand has in mind right now of doing. The key question to be as to be asking is, could we do what we want to do if this technology didn’t existed? Because a lot of brands are trying to do just classic activations or classic, you know, compaign rollouts, but they’re adding the name NF t, and then, but they could do exactly the same thing without NF T’s without Metaverse without blockchain without any of this technology. And if you find that the answer is yes, then I would recommend you going back taking a step back and trying to refine and understand because this space people are within this space, at least right now because again, we early are very sensitive to cash grab, we’ve been robbed and you know, sculpt and punch to know what you can imagine by all type of ICOs, all type of like crypto rugs, all typo on teams. So as soon as we see something that we’re like, Huh, that’s gonna be shady people vanish. And you don’t want your brand to be connected with that, right? The like, the bullshit, rather, within this space is really sensible. And people really sense check it far away, because that’s the nature of the Wild West. And crypto is still with a very, very big wild west. So I think, you know, like doing that doing due diligence might take a long time, especially in bigger organizations, but is really important, because that’s going to give the perception when you come in, you know, and if you’re very lucky to have people within your organization that have been in the space for enough time, to be able at least to give you some experience and guidance. That’s exactly who you want to grab and bring to your team. You know, because it’s, it’s all about, like, the actual education and understanding the space, you know, and how you can do that in authentic and in sort of, like, you know, authentic manner. I think that’s the key word, you know, how can you be authentic to the space?

Desi Velikova 54:57

Yeah, I think nothing really can compare to spending time on Twitter and discord and getting to know people and watching the space for me at the moment, Twitter in this quarter, the king and queen in terms of distribution channels, that’s where the real NFT communities and the metaverse community really thrives. And when we sync anything, is there another underutilized channel that we can put probably exporting, we should be spending more time on it.

Diego Borgo 55:28

I think I think as as, as this conversation evolves to the level of conversations that we’re having, where we want to help marketeers entrepreneurs, you know, brands and in companies to understand if there is something for them within the space, I think LinkedIn is going to explode. You know, that’s, that’s why I’m spending a lot of my time there. Because my role is being bridging Twitter and these chord craziness into a more digestible way, on LinkedIn, where people can learn and understand and see what’s happening and what I share my experiences. So people can like, you know, feel with that’s the right direction, or if he was that direction they want to go. So I think LinkedIn is really underutilized right now. You know, I’ve done an experiment couple weeks ago, where I gave early access to a project that I advise on, and I haven’t seen that before on LinkedIn, I don’t know, it was the first but doesn’t matter. And I had a crazy engagement and a very crazy amount of response of people that either are already within the space, and were excited about the project, or are not in the space, don’t have a wallet, don’t have crypto, but wanted to learn more, so they could join the project. So you know, like, that’s, that’s what I think is exciting, because, you know, it’s you start looking to community building on LinkedIn, which tend to be just sort of like thought leaders, or people that are just like really talking about like, you know, car parades, or, or more like the high level professional stuff. And now we can sort of like, you know, bridge that gap, as well of creating new communities that are more diverse, or you know, that are coming from very different angles, not just study for marketing, or entrepreneurship, or this, that’s more like connected to the overall to the overall, you know, whatever the project is about, for example, so I think LinkedIn, LinkedIn is an interesting platform right now, I think it’s very younger utilized. LinkedIn was fighting a lot with profile pictures in the beginning, like, you know, just putting that down and like, shutting people down, and I think they took a break, or I think I am very under the router. So you know, I’m glad we can do that. And I hope they find like a proper way of doing that in the future doesn’t go against their policies, or whatever. But I think I think the momentum within this platform is really interesting. Engagement is really high, you know, is something as I see us on Twitter, and I see a lot of people spending more time there. And obviously from from a sort of, like, Jose from. Yeah, just like, from a lead point of view, you know, so many people, like I get about 30 DMS a day, or people like, Hey, do you want to, like, partner in this project? Do you want to talk about this thing? Do you want to, you know, consolidate brands? Or do you want to, like build something together? Or do you want to just chat like, Oh, I see you posting and I don’t know anything about it, would you mind like giving five minutes and explaining what this is about? So like, I see interest 99 point 99% of my relationship has been positive, which is, which is really refreshing, you know, because we know social media tend to be that black hole where people just, you know, talk crazy to authors, because they’re hidden behind a keyboard. And I think the beauty of LinkedIn on everyone having sort of like their professional networking there, it still doesn’t do it perfectly. But a lot of people have common sense to understand it, they go mad on someone, like that’s not necessarily good for their professional relationship. Although it happens a lot. But I feel it’s been very positive. People are generally curious and interested to learn. And you know, I’m just trying to share my experiences there. So I think that that place is exciting.

Desi Velikova 59:14

What can we do to increase adoption and invite more people to the space make them excited about it? Do you have any practical tips and have your LinkedIn updates it? I think that freight effort to kind of humanize and simplify the space and make it feel less intimidating. What else can we do?

Diego Borgo 59:35

Well, I think I think there there are three things I am personally doing to do that, because that’s sort of like the mission I take on. I took on one is education. You know, I think it’s key. I think, you know, that type of conversation we’re having right now, which I always try to be very blunt. I always try to be very raw when like, I’m not pushing an agenda. And I’m not like trying to convince you that this is the future, I think it is, in my perspective in my experiences, and I tried to show people why thing this way. That’s, that’s that’s how I wrote. And I think education you know, as much as possible is the way I think a lot of people who struggle to understand because it’s such a complex environment, first you need to understand blockchain, then you need to understand cryptocurrencies, then you need to have a digital wallet, then you need to understand how you connect, then you need to understand like gas or depending the network you using, then either incentives Martin country gets, like, endless and the more you dive, the deeper he gets, the rabbit hole is real. So I think education, whoever can correct the problem of education at scale. You know, it’s, it’s up for something really important. So I’m spending a lot of my time there, you know, through this type of conversation through LinkedIn, through I’ve been boarded 200 plus people to the space people that came to me and say, Hey, can you help me, not like people that I’m forcing to come into this space. And I’m trying to spend a lot of my time in there. So I think first builders education. The second pillar, I think, is really connected to brands. That’s why I choose that way. That’s why I chose that avenue. That’s why I’m working with brands. You know, I know I have a lot of friends and fellows from the space that preferred not working with corporate, that’s any word, we don’t want to Danny, and we’re anti corporate, unlike Sure, but they’re the ones that are going to bring the consumer base, they’re the ones that gonna educate at scale. If they do it, right, they’re gonna enrich the space by being bringing millions and millions of people that wouldn’t come in, if it wasn’t for them. So you also need to understand a little bit more of the long term vision, which is making this space, you know, inclusive, and bring a lot of people in so we can be build something really exciting for the future. That’s why we’re good brands. And the third step for me is really rewarding pag projects, you know, like, for the, for this captus? Or for the people that really don’t understand, can we show them that this is way more than JPEGs, and AIDS and being wings and all that craziness, can we show them that we can make people’s lives better, by using a new suit of technology, that without that technology was impossible to be done before? You know, I use that example, again, of what’s happening right now, especially especially in Europe, because there was a Dow formed for supporting Ukraine, there is a NFT collection forum to support Ukraine. And there is like several different, you know, projects that are receiving funds. And we’re passing those funds, because now the Ukrainian government has created several different digital wallets to receive those funds. How incredible is that? That wasn’t possible to be done before. And that’s another way where we can show to the world. Yes, there is a utility for this technology, apart from being wins and AIDS and all that. So you know, rewarding packed solutions, I think are also key for that. I’m trying to spend as much time as I can within those three buckets and add as much value as I can of industry buckets, because of my playbook. I think that’s the way we’re going to get there.

Desi Velikova 1:03:01

I have a hard time with the anonymity in the space, to be honest, and you know, the doc cynic, how they want to call it. I don’t know, there is something about you know, not knowing who is behind the project that really bothers me. And I would never get involved in a project if I don’t know, the team behind it. And I believe that kind of the more the NFT space mature, the more we would need to know the real identities of the people who actually work on those projects. I don’t know, do you think I’m getting this wrong? Or is this like my web to self creeping in and not letting me understand the space completely? Or is this the future probably we’ll be seeing less and less than your own image and more people putting their faces and backgrounds to give credibility to their projects?

Diego Borgo 1:03:51

No, I mean, I wouldn’t never say you you’re wrong. I think it’s it’s very important and very wise to understand criterias on why you do and why you don’t or where you do and where you don’t invest your money. So that’s very wise. And if that’s the criteria, that’s absolutely fine. I think it’s it’s it’s it’s a very hard conversation because it comes from there’s positives and cons on both sides. Right. But what I think on the why it is how it is, I think it comes as sort of like a heritage for gripped from crypto. Where you know, there is very clear and important motives why someone wants to remain an on within cryptocurrency, for example, one, you’re you’re working against the biggest powers in the world by developing decentralized, you know, solutions that can pretty much put in dangers like banks and central bank and governments. So you might want to hide your identity when you’re trying to do things like that. So I understand that. Secondly, It’s getting better. But for a long time, you know, taxes or taxation was never like so clear. I think there are few countries right now that are really like working hard and getting more and more clarity on that. But it’s not because there are people that do it. I’m not saying they don’t. But it’s not necessarily because you want to, like, hide or don’t pay taxes. But a lot of times it was just not like clear or possible to understand how do you how do you do that? So you know, there was a motive why people want to remain an arm because there was no really set of rules in place. Again, I’m not saying that otters don’t do that, because they don’t want to pay taxes. There’s a bunch of them they do too. And then third, you know, there’s a lot of connection to connect to the technology. You know, it’s all tech, it’s all in the air is all the blockchain, what is the blockchain? You know, I don’t know what where the blockchain is that. So if you have a lot of liquidity, or a lot of people are going to space have a majority of their savings in this face. And someone finds out, you know, that that ledger, that you have seats at your home, and they know that you have a ledger, therefore, you have a seat phrase, therefore, if they find both, you gone, and by knowing your face, they know your address, that’s pretty dangerous, you know, so I understand those three aspects from like, Why think people do and why that’s like a heritage from crypto. And I think because of a lot of people that are building in our builders on d phi and NFT, they came from that background, they brought that heritage with them. So that’s one aspect, I think, another aspect is also connected to, you know, just not being willing to be a target. I think, especially when it comes to, you know,

Diego Borgo 1:06:41

thought leaders or influencers, if you want to call people like that, they become a very easy target. You know, depending on what they say, especially on this crazy constellation culture we are living at right now. So by showing my face and telling me what I’m telling you, maybe someone can get this video in 10 years from now, curtain Please place the things around and make me sound like a crazy person. And that, you know, is connected to my face, and therefore has to be connected to me forever, in a space that is so me when like, you know, unstable, like crypto, a lot of people feel better by hiding their identities. I think that’s also connected to like personal protection, right? So those are the motives, why people do it, in my point of view, I don’t think is necessarily a good thing all the time. I think obviously, a lot of bad actors take advantage of that. And, and you could see through smart contracts that a lot of the projects are copy and paste, and they just shift around the add ons, and they use the same projects. And they keep scamming people from different angles, which is an incredibly bad thing. So I’m 100% with you there on, you know, not putting your money there because you just don’t trust and believe. So I don’t think there is like a prediction or a true answer to that. I have nothing against that. And imagery, I think is a beautiful thing for blockchain. Specifically, when it comes to data protection. All we need to be in play in this game is a digital wallet and a password and a seed phrase, obviously, no watering information. Nobody knows my name, nobody’s on my address. Nobody knows my, well, technically my IP, but obviously we know is not true. But you know, depending on the wallet to use. So this is what’s great, because you know, the web three aspect for me that’s really exciting, which includes anonymity is that you’re again leveling up that entry to the space, no matter who you are, you know, we’ve seen lately the craziness of, you know, people from ease from Venezuela not being able to access their digital wallets, because the current embargo in the economy. You know, like those are things that web three was supposed to fix, and he’s supposed to fix. And there is some wallets out there that don’t do that by the right way still. But you know, I think a lot of things are connected to that. So it’s an impossible answer to say, is this right? This is wrong. What I tried to do is also sighs like the whole the whole is fear and try to understand, you know, why people do it. But there’s always pros and cons. You know, it’s, it’s difficult to I am pro or I’m against? I’m pro, you know, I think I think he brings more benefits than problems so far, especially if people have the same mindset as you if you don’t want invest in something because before Adam Koch, don’t invest in it, don’t. Right. But if you do, then you taking the risk and that’s up to you. And by taking off the middleman which are banks for example, and we becoming our own custodians, we are taking entirely the risk towards ourselves. So we need to know what we want to do with our seed phrase with our money and with all of it you know, so I think I think that’s a wise way to think but I’m pro anonymity. I think it brings a lot of benefits especially on you know, the way that the current global economy and and the current Word is heading off after the last two years, I think that an image is becoming more and more important.

Desi Velikova 1:10:05

Yeah. And it’s the sort of enigma of the space. Really, we want complete decentralization. But in order for it to be really successful, unfortunately, we need some sort of regulation. So when exactly we’ve got to get the balance, right, we don’t know what the future will tell. It’s been absolutely pleasure to have this chat with you, Diego. It was something super interesting. Interesting, as expected. So before I let you go, just tell me your prediction. Where do you think the NFT space is getting to? So his and witnessing the crash? Is the bubble bursting at the moment? They Where do you see it in the next couple of years or so?

Diego Borgo 1:10:47

Present? I don’t know. It’s clearly a little bear today on the Eighth of March, you know, it’s a little bear. But there’s always ups and downs and empty space. And if you’re not into just for the money, that doesn’t really matter, which is my case, and I’m in for long term, I’m here to learn. I invested as little as I could go to a casino put it down. And if I lost that, in five minutes, I’ll be laughing. So that’s how over invested I am, you know, I’m sleeping well. So it’s not connected to the financial aspect for me. So that’s the present? Will, Will there be a bubble 100% I’m not no questions about it, the what we’ve seen from a human behavior and all the greed and all of it, it’s clear, that’s going to happen. Now, when it’s going to happen, I don’t know what the result will be trillionaire couple years from now, because they would, I would be able to, to read the top or the bottom of one of the, you know, the most exciting runs on financials that we’ve seen in the last years. So it’s undeniable, it’s gonna happen, I don’t know when. But as I said, Before, the technology is gonna stick around, you know, the technology is what is really exciting. The technology is going to go, you know, through all this process, as it did with the internet, I see the very clear connection there. And that’s where I think, you know, in 234, or five years, 10 years from now, I think if I can predict something from my very limited prediction skills, I would say that 10 years from now will be almost impossible finding someone. Obviously, I’m not talking about a billion people that live in the world, but within your professional circle, for example, will be almost impossible finding someone that isn’t owning something digitally only or something or owning something digitally on the blockchain, that being NF T’s that being matters, that being whatever the hell that segment is going to be there. But we will shift from 95 or 100% physical ownership to a much larger digital ownership. If you think about the last 10 or 15 years that we spend online in the metaverse. We are in the metaverse. This is the metaverse already, right? The new Metaverse is an evolution of the current Metaverse, you and I are on it right now, digitally somehow, you know, the amount of time we’ve we’ve spent digitally in the last 10 to 15 years. And we haven’t own anything physically displays that there is a mud like a major gap to the field. Because we as humans, we will need ways to communicate online. And you know, when this screen that’s pretty bad right now is you and I in a 2d video becomes something more engaging becomes like a 3d platform becomes something we can put goggles on becomes something that we can put haptic gloves on becomes something that you’re going to work with people all over the ward on that space, you’re going to play games, you’re going to invest, you’re going to hang out, as soon as that becomes reality. We will need ways to you know, express ourselves and communicate to waters in there as well. And obviously that’s going to be things you’re going to own digitally that being wearables that being any type of product or whatever. So you know, I think that’s where the next five and 10 years ahead.

Desi Velikova 1:14:00

Excellent. Yeah, the hardware. We’re at the moment feels bigger than the software and the moment we’ll get you know, some proper gear in our hands. It will be absolutely amazing. Thank you so much time to go where can people find you online on the web too?

Diego Borgo 1:14:18

Yeah, LinkedIn webs. You can find me there Diego, Borgo you can find me there. I’m an alien. You find a purple background. Matter here from pixel vault is a great project. And you can find me on Twitter, Doner line Bourgault. That’s That’s my anong account. Not anymore. So yeah, that’s that’s where you can find.

Desi Velikova 1:14:41

So that’s it for today. Thanks for listening, everyone. This podcast was brought to you by Tony. We spent our time designing the future of web three. Check us out on pony dot Studio.